Walkthrough 4 :

In this walkthrough we will build two villa blocks and get 98 PR.

While playing you might want to try a few shortcut keys that I found very useful:

I'm using the shortcut key "F" frequently to clear view.

Also "CTRL ]" and "CTRL [" keys for speed increase and decrease. Of course I also use windowed mode which will work if you have set your computer to 16 bit

color quality and your desktop resolution is higher than game resolution.

The F6 key lets you switch between windowed and full mode. Press F6 again to change back.

F7 and F8 keys change resolution.

Another game feature is to save a location to quickly move there. For instance go to your forts so you have them all on screen. Then press "CTRL F1". This

will save that location to the F1 key. Now go anywhere else on the map and press F1. It will take you back immediately to that previous location. F1, F2, F3,

F4 keys can be used that way.

Also you can click the mini map to quickly go to places. You could first select one fort and with the cursor having turned into a sword you can still click

the minimap.

Remember to return your army to the fort after battles. Their morale will drop if you leave them outside the fort for too long.

I played this walkthrough in 2 hours 40 minutes but I was very familiar with all the details. So I think you could complete it in 4 hours or even less which is still not so long.

OK, now let's get started.


------------------------------------------ Year 2 starts here ------------------------------------------

90. load your dec 1 save "leveltwo 20" from walkthrough 2 and run until Jan 2. If you haven't played walkthrough 2, play now until step 89.

91. In jan 2,

a. check your ratings to make sure you have 18 PR, 24 PE, 32 FV,
b. fulfill the marble request,
c. build one more fort near exit flag behind mountains
d. delete the warehouse in temple block,
e. set marble to export over 4
f. lower taxes to %10.
g. lower wages to 32 Dn
g. set your wine warehouse to getting olives besides accepting wine

92. Go to the river crossing area.

a. build two more low bridges
b. Build roads on both sides of bridges. Don't build plazas. I have only used plazas because they are easy to count.
c. delete trees but leave the area shown in red

Glyphy Tool


93. Build,
1 gatehouse
4 housing signs to exactly these 2x2 suitable slots

Roads are shown as plaza. Don't build plazas.


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94. Build the rest of roads of the new villa block. Plazas show the old villa block.


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95. save game "WT4 01"

96. Build,

8 large statues
10 fountains
63 houses (to exact location)

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97. save game "WT4 02"

98. Go to the small casa block.

a. Build new reservoirs to the farm side of the block. Build one in front of farms and another one to the river and connect them.
b. Delete the existing 2 reservoirs near the block and wait until they are gone.
c. clear the remaining road tiles that will be left when the two reservoirs are gone.
d. delete the remaining aqueducts all the way until the dock reservoir.
e. delete the dock reservoir

99. Build these 2 reservoirs and connect them. Make sure you leave a few trees for timber as shown in red.

Glyphy Tool
100. Go to the dock area.
a. delete the engineer and delete the tents.
b. rebuild the engineer to its new location
c. build 4 housing signs next to the third warehouse
d. build 3 clay pits
e. build 1 more warehouse
f. In the dock area set all 4 warehouses to not accepting anything. Also stop the warehouses that were set to emptying. We are going to reset all. When you

are done continue below.
g. set the new warehouse to accept olives, pottery and clay
h. set the warehouse that touches the dock to getting marble
i. set the middle warehouse to getting marble
j. set the third warehouse to getting marble and accepting oil.

Glyphy Tool

101. save game "WT4 03"


102. lenghten the farm road and build these:

1 engineer between fountains
1 small statue
1 market
1 granary
5 wheat farms
4 vacant lots (to exactly these 2x2 suitable slots)
1 engineer to farm road

Glyphy Tool

103. keep going until Apr 2

104. In Apr 2, build 6 pottery workshops to dock road
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105. In temple block find the ceres temple. Delete 3 tents in front of ceres and build another ceres temple to that place.

106. Delete the neptune temple in temple block

107. Go to the old villa block. There is 8 tiles space between two revervoirs. Build 1 mercury and 1 Mars temple so that each temple touches one reservoir.

108. Now you should have 1 temple for neptune and 3 temples for other Gods.
a. Run for a while until neptune is displeased which will happen in middle of May.
b. After Neptune is displeased build back the neptune temple in temple block

109. save game "WT4 04"

110. Build

1 more Neptune temple
1 library
1 engineer

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111.
a. run until Jun 2 if it isn't already Jun.
b. In jun 2 send one javelin fort to empire service. Ignore the wine request.

112. change these 3 wheat farms to vegetable farms

113. go to the old villa block. There is one warehouse accepting oil. Chance this from accepting to getting oil besides getting olives.

114. Run until Jul 2

115. In Jul 2 build:

1 engineer
2 clay pits
1 gladiator school (near library)
1 amphitheatre (near gatehouse)


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116. save game "WT4 05" and run until Oct 2

117. In Oct 2 build 4 warehouses:
Glyphy Tool
118. build 4 pottery workshops

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119. run until dec 2

120. In dec 2,

a. throw a small festival to neptune
b. set all 4 new warehouses to not accepting anything.
c. set the warehouse that touches the granary to accept wine and getting oil
d. set the warehouse that touches the market to accept pottery
e. set the middle warehouse to accept furniture
f. set the third warehouse to getting oil
g. build 5 more wheat farms here:

Glyphy Tool
121. save game "WT4 06". Keep going until Jan 3




------------------------------------------ Year 3 starts here ------------------------------------------

122.
a. In jan 3 check your ratings to make sure you have 28PR, 28PE and 41FV. We lost 1 Peace rating here but this is OK.
b. fulfil the wine request
c. remove marble from export list We want to export after Neptune for double price.
d. set wine and vines off (we need some workforce)
e. build 2 timber yards and 4 furniture workshops here :

Glyphy Tool

123. save game "WT4 07" and continue until Apr 3.

124. In Apr 3 neptune blessing will arrive. Now,

a. set pottery to export over 0
b. set marble to export over 4
c. If you have 2500 Dn right now go to next step. If you don't then continue a little until you have 2500 Dn and go to next step.

125.
a. build two more forts near exit flag behind mountains
b. Keep going until Aug 3


126. In Aug 3 build these plazas: (in F view)

Glyphy Tool

127. Go to the dock area,
a. next to the lastly build warehouse build 3 oil workshops
b. after the 3 oil workshops leave 1 tile space and build 2 more oil workshops.
c. save game "WT4 08"

128. Go to the bathhouse area.

a. delete both reservoirs and delete the aqueducts until you are near the hippodrome
b. repair the road tiles that you deleted while deleting the aqueducts
c. build 2 new reservoirs and new aqueducts as shown
d. run a little to see if all baths are getting water


Glyphy Tool
129. connect the new block to baths. You will delete 2 tents and 4 plaza tiles as you connect:

Glyphy Tool


130. save game "WT4 09" and run until Dec 3

131. In Dec 3,
a. go to the temple block and delete all tents
b. delete the engineer
c. delete some roads leaving only the ones shown
d. rebuild the engineer to its new location
e. add 4 housing signs to these 2x2 suitable slots


132. save game "WT4 10"

133. We will now build a new small casa block near temple line. Don't build gardens. Gardens are guides that will help you count distances. Now build these

roads as road and plazas as plaza.

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134.
a. turn on vines and wine
b. turn off marble
c. delete 1 clay pit and 2 pottery workshops from dock area
d. save game "WT4 11" Keep going until Jan 4



------------------------------------------ Year 4 starts here ------------------------------------------

135, In jan 4 check your ratings to make sure you have PR:38 Peace: 33 Favor: 50

136. Now build 1 gatehouse and many houses: Notice that two of the house lines are one tile away from road while two of them are touching roads.

Glyphy Tool

137. Build,

1 colleseum
1 doctor
1 barber


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138. save game "WT4 12"

139. Go to the old villa block. Now, delete this oil workshops and these 4 tents:

Glyphy Tool

140. change the road and build these 4 vacant lots (F view)

Glyphy Tool

141. build one oil workshop next to the wheat granary on the old villa block :

Glyphy Tool


142. save game "WT4 13" and keep going until Mar 4,

143. In Mar 4,
a. fulfil the pottery request
b. Send the army to the invasion point near exit area.
c. build 3 more markets to the new villa block in front of the existing market
d. On the new villa block build 6 more wheat farms between the 3 warehouses and existing farms


144. On the new villa block build these 6 small statues:

Glyphy Tool

145.
a. For the rest of the houses that are not shown in last glyhpy build one small statue behind each house. Leave the game running at %10 speed as you build.
b. save game "WT4 14" and keep going until May 4,

146. In May 4, build 2 schools here

Glyphy Tool
147. delete small statues from these 5 houses:

Glyphy Tool
148. Now build 4 more housing lines that will touch the previous 4 lines. The old lines are shown as gardens. The new ones are shown as houses.

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149.
a. run a little so tents will become 2x2 small tents in the new small casa block.
b. delete all houses in new small casas block that are not 2x2.
c. save game "WT4 15"
d. Now count your 2x2's by deleting them in pairs, 2,4,6,... The easiest way to count houses is to delete them as you count.
e. When you have finished counting load you last save.
f. Leave 42 2x2's and delete the rest. Delete anywhere except near the gatehouse. At the end you should have 42 2x2 small tents on new casa block and no

other house.


150. Build,

6 wheat farms
3 engineers
1 granary
2 markets
1 venus temple
1 library
1 theatre
4 fountains (there is 9 tiles space between them)
21 tiles garden between fountains
2 reservoirs (first build the house resevoir by aligning it to the center fountain and then build the aqueducts and the source reservoir)
some aqueducts
1 tile road under the aqueduct as shown

Glyphy Tool
151.
a. run a little to make sure all houses are getting water
b. save game "WT4 16" and run until Aug 4


152. In Aug 4 build 16 more wheat farms to new casa block. The total will be 22 farms:

Glyphy Tool
153. save game "WT4 17"

154.
a. On the old small casa block delete the 10 vegetable farms and the granary
b. turn on marble and
c. set marble to export over 12
d. run until Sep 4

155. In sep 4,
a. go to the new villa block and evolve 12 more houses to 2x2. Only delete statues from 1x1's that are touching a 2x2. At the end you will have 20 large

insulea in new villa block. Leave the river side to the end. Evolve from the market side downwards.
b. build one more temple to Ceres, Neptune, Mercury and Mars to temple line. Each God will have 4 temples.
c. run until dec 4

156. In dec 4,

a. go to the bath loop and delete all tents. (F view)
b. delete the engineer and rebuild it two tiles to the right.
c. build 8 vacant lots to these 2x2 suitable slots
d. delete a few plaza tiles from a second corner as shown
e. build one more engineer

Glyphy Tool
157. save game "WT4 18" and run until Jan 5




------------------------------------------ Year 5 starts here ------------------------------------------

158. In Jan 5, check your ratings: PR=48 Peace=37 Favor=84. We lost one more point from peace rating. Don't worry about that.

159. Go to the farmland of the old villa block. (F view)
a. delete these 6 tents
b. delete the road tiles shown as plaza
c. delete the engineer
d. delete both vines farms
e. delete the wine workshops
f. delete these 7 farms
g. run a little so all are gone

Glyphy Tool

160.
a. build two more wheat farms so that wheat farms look as shown
b. build 4 vacant lots to the shown 2x2 suitable slots
c. build 6 more vegetable farms as shown
d. build 4 wine workshops
e. build two vines farms in front of wine workshops
f. build 1 engineer

Glyphy Tool

161. save game "WT4 19"

162.
a. go to the warehouse at marble mines. Set this to accept only marble.
b. go to the old villa block and set the furniture warehouse to accept wheat.
c. delete 1 furniture workshop from old villa block (we don't want the warehouse to get full with furniture)
d. set wheat to import

163. Go to old the small casa block,
a. there are 7 houses on the outer side of the loop. Delete them.
b. delete the library and theatre

164. Now that the houses are out of the way, lenghten the second farm road and build:

1 more granary
4 more wheat farms
2 vegetable farms
1 engineer

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165.
a. set the new granary to accept only vegetables
b. set the old granary to accepy only wheat
c. save game "WT4 20"
d. run until Mar 5

166. In Mar 5,

a. fulfil the furniture request
b. send the army to invasion point behind Governers Palace.
c. go to the old villa block. Convert 10 tiles road to plazas between the wheat granary and vegetable granary.
d. build 8 small statues in a row between these two granaries
e. On the new villa block evolve 10 more houses to large insulea
f. on the old villa block evolve 7 more houses to villas by deleting 7 small statues. Remember you must only delete small statues that are touching a 2x2

house. Total is now 30 villas.

167. save game "WT4 21" and run until May 5

168. In May 5, Go to the old villa block and,
a. delete the venus temple and rebuild it so it touches the oil workshop and is 3 tiles away from the reservoir.
b. build a hospital between venus and the reservoir
c. The hospital is touchinbg an engineer. Delete that engineer and lenghten its road one more tile. Then rebuild the engineer.


169.
a. On the old villa block build a theatre between Mercury and Mars
b. delete the chariot maker and rebuild it two tiles closer to river.
c. Change the road a little and build here an actor colony. Notice that the road doesn't touch the bottom of the senate.

Glyphy Tool


170.

a. Go to the old villa block. Delete the large statue closest to river. We will build something better.
b. build 3 tiles road as shown

Glyphy Tool
c. build a Triumphal Arch to the road. The tool is under large statue tool on panel. This will solve all desirability problems in that area. We are upgrading

the old villa block from small villas to medium villas.


171. On the old villa block, build 2 small statues here accross the water:
Glyphy Tool
172. build 1 lion house here:
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173. save game "WT4 22" and run until Sep 5

174. In Sep 5,
a. delete everything that is left from the old small casa block including its reservoirs. Don't leave anything behind.
b. build 1 neptune temple to temple line
c. build 8 more vegetable farms here:
Glyphy Tool

175. lenghten the third farm road and build,

12 more vegetable farms
2 vines farms (near engineer) and
1 engineer. We need massive food production to fill these house stocks.

Glyphy Tool
176.
a. save game "WT4 23"
b. evolve 10 more houses to villas in old villa block. Total is now 40.
c. run until dec 5

177. In Dec 5,
b. save game "WT4 24" and run until Jan 6



------------------------------------------ Year 6 starts here ------------------------------------------

178. in jan 6,
a. Check ratings : PR: 58 Peace: 41 Favor: 93. We lost one more peace point but thats fine.
b. send the army to invasion point next to the entry
c. fulfil the oil request
d. delete 1 oil workshop from dock area (leaving 4)
e. Evolve 10 more houses to large insulea in new villa block.
f. build one more temple for each God on temple line and when the temple line is full continue in bathouse loop.
g. save game "WT4 25"
h. run until May 6


179. In May 6 go to the new villa block and
a. build a hospital in front of the library so the hospital touches the library
b. next to the timber yards there are two furniture workshops. Build 4 wine workshops next to these furniture workshops
c. build a large statue between the reservoir and wine workshops
d. save game "WT4 26"
e. run until Aug 6


180. In Aug 6
a. evolve 10 more houses to villas in old villa block. Total is now 50.
b. run until Dec 6

181. In Dec 6,
a. go to your labor advisor and check how many unemployed workforce you have
b. divide that number by 4 and build that many fountains to a useless area, for instance inside the bath loop. I have 272 unemployed people so I will build

48 fountains while the game is running at %10.
c. save game "WT4 27" and keep going until Jan 7


------------------------------------------ Year 7 starts here ------------------------------------------



182. in jan 7,
a. check ratings PR: 68 Peace: 45 Favor: 99.
b. run until Mar 7

183. In Mar 7,
a. fulfil the marble request
b. evolve 10 more houses to villas. Total is now 60.
c. save game "WT4 28"
d. run until Apr 7


184. In Apr 7 finally the vegetable granary in new block is getting full.
a. evolve 10 more houses to grand insulea in new block
b. run until Jun 7.

185. In Jun 7 evolve the last 7 houses to villas in old villa block. This villa block is now completed with 67 medium villas.


186.
a. run until Aug 7
b. In Aug 7 evolve the remainin 13 houses to grand insulea in new villa block. Be carefull with the corner houses. Leave them to end.
c. save game "WT4 29"
d. Build one ceres temple to the new villa block in front of the river reservoir so that the ceres temple touches the river.
e. delete a ceres temple from temple line
f. build one medium statue in front of the new ceres temple but build it one tile away from the temple.
g. on the new villa block switch to F view and build a small statue to every empty slot. I have build 10 small statues between fountains and near ceres.

187.
a. In the new small casa block delete 4 wheat farms. 18 will be left.
b. delete the clay pits and pottery workshops in dock area
c. In the new villa block there is one large statue between the wine workshops and a reservoir. Replace that large statue with a ceres temple.
d. delete a ceres temple from temple line.
e. delete 2 wheat and 4 vegetable farms from new villa block
f. save game "WT4 30"
g. keep running until Now 7
h. In Now 7 delete all useless fountains
i. keep going until Dec 7

188. In dec 7,

a. stop importing wheat
b. build one more furniture workshop to the old villa block next to the existing 3 furniture workshops
c. set the furniture warehouse to not accepting wheat
d. save game "WT4 31"
e. and run until Jan 8

------------------------------------------ Year 8 starts here ------------------------------------------



189. In Jan 8,
a. check ratings: PR: 78, Peace: 50 Favor: 99
b. fulfil the wine request
c. delete the two small statues in bathouse block
d. build one more temple for each God on temple line and bathouse block
e. keep running until Dec 8

190. In Dec 8 save game "WT4 32" and run until Jan 9






------------------------------------------ Year 9 starts here ------------------------------------------


191. In Jan 9,

a. check your ratings. I have 88PR, 55PE, 99FV
b. Keep going until Mar 9 ignoring the pottery request. We will not fullfil that request at all.


192. in Mar 9,

a. send your army to invasion point in front of the temple line
b. build 8 libraries to the dock road
c. keep going until Dec 9


193. in dec 9, save game "wt4 33" and continue until Jan 10



------------------------------------------ Year 10 starts here ------------------------------------------


194. in jan 10,
a. check ratings PR: 98 Peace: 60 Favor: 95
b. fulfill the furniture request. Ignore pottery.
c. Delete the two clay pits that belong to the old villa block and build two medium statuses to that place
d. run until Mar 10

195. In Mar 10,
a. send the army to invasion point in front of temple line
b. on the new villa block build a ceres temple between the hospital and neptune temple.
c. delete a ceres temple from temple line
d. save game "wt4 34"
e. run until Jun


196. In Jun , turn these off:

wheat
vegetables
vines
wine
oil
timber
clay
marble
furniture
pottery

b. save game "wt4 35" and
c. run until all houses in new villa block are villas
d. save again "wt4 36"

197. run at %100 speed until the end and watch population. Population should rise but then stop and remain the same. Where does it stop? Mine stops at 8500.

198. load you last save and run until population reaches the target number, 8500 in my case.

199. Now write down these numbers:
a. population = 8500 (write your own population)
b. school age people = 1224 (from education advisor. written in black font)
c. academy age people = 512 (from education advisor. written in black font)

200. Now calculate what you need according your numbers.

Temples: 8500 / 1500= 5.66. Rounds to 6. I have already 6 temples so I don't need any more
Theatres: 8500/500=17. I have 2 so I will build 15 more.
Schools : 1224/75=16.32. Rounds to 17. I have 4 so I need 13 more.
Libraries: 8500/800=10.62. Rounds to 11. I have already 11.
Academies : 512/100=5.12 rounds to 6. I will build 6.

201. So, now, load you last save again. We will build these structures immediately without waiting for population.

I have build 15 theatres to the new casa block.
I have build 13 schools next to the lion house and in front of the lion house and to the bath loop
I have build 6 academies to the farm road of new casa block and in front of the schools near lion house

202. Save game "wt4 37"
203. run until you reach the target population
204. delete these structures:

2 hospital,
2 barbers,
2 doctors,
1 senate
1 chariot school
1 actor colony
1 lion house
1 gladiator school
1 hippodrome

205. Now, remove priority from engineering, military and industry

206. set heath to 4 and entertainment to 5

207. run for half a month or for a full month and culture will be 100

208. make your final save "wt4 38"



------------------------- end of walkthrough --------------------------------

My game data:

Game saved in Oct 10
Money : 43.040
Population : 8500
PR : 98
CL : 100
FV : 100
PE : 60
Patricians = (67+63)*42= 130*42= 5460

Score :

CL+FV+PE= 260*20=5200
Patricians= 2x 5460 = 10.920
PR: 4260

Total Score = 4260+5200+10920= 20.380

If you are playing this walkthough you will notice that it is not completely different from the previous ones.

In WT2 we had 67 villas and no PR.
In WT3 we had 67 villas and 98PR.
In WT4 now we have 67 + 63 villas and 98 PR.

While it might look like very easy, this WT4 was at average difficulty for myself. So it wasn't very easy. The problems I had were 1. money, 2. workforce, 3. PR cap, 4.House food stocks

Money was sorted with the Apr 3 blessing. Workforce was sorted with the new plebian block build at the beginning of year 4. PR cap was sorted with grand insulea and medium villas. I upgraded the existing small villa block to medium. It is unusual to get full grand insulea (with 84 population) and then reduce it back to medium villa (with 42 populaton) but sometimes you need to go a little back in order to move forward. Grand insulea worked great. It helped with both PR cap and workforce at the same time. Food stocks in houses was sorted by overproducing. For instance, when I needed 18 farms I build 22 and then deleted 4 after a few years.

One unique thing about this map was how the culture rating was sorted out. There are many buildings like hospitals, doctors, barbers, hippodrome, amphitheatre, gladiator school, etc. that consume workforce but don't contribute to culture rating. So I deleted them. Another difference in this map was that I wasn't bothered with losing peace ratings. There is no need for perfectionalism. We have 60 peace instead 64 but the map was much easier to play with less money problems with taxes at %10 and wages at 32 Dn. You just need to be a little flexible with these things and move on.

The villas could survive 6 more months on a free run without service buildings and food but only 2 months were enough to fill the extra 2 population for upgrading from small to medium villa.

Each walkthrough is rising it roughly 5000 more from where it was left at last level. Roughly we had, 5,10,15 and 20 thousand scores. I will see if I can continue this tradition 2 more times. Unfortunately this WT4 is the end of the series we stated with WT2. All three maps shared the same beginning so you didn't have to play again until Dec 1. The next level will make a fresh start. If you noticed the villa blocks we used in WT2,3,4 were double looped. I have a new design that simplifies things. It has a single loop. I will also look into the convertable idea. So next level will have either bigger single looped villa blocks or convertable villa blocks.

Done!

Pros 98, Cult 100, Favour 100, Peace 60
Population 8472, 45025 Dn, save Sep 10

Excellent WT Phil, thanks!
That was not difficult at all, only you have to follow the WT to the letter (but I am 'trained' for that ).

Had a small problem with the new villa block, since I didn't leave the corners to the end. Oh well, went back a bit.

I'm just curious why did my lion house collapse all of a sudden in March year 9. No big deal, built it again. And we did have just 5 forts, right? I noticed there is just 5, but didn't give it another thought. My soldiers had clean victories anyway, so why bother?

The two villa blocks have all medium villas, except one lonely medium insulae, which is right next to the new villa block's markets, no place to evolve. I wonder if I put it there by mistake, or then the markets are just by one tile too close to it. If that is the case I probably should start it all over. (Didn't want to check it right now, sorry.)

Hello Lokki,

Well done. You achieved a great score. 20.000 is a serious score on this map.

Probably the engineer was always walking to the wrong direction and the lion house collapsed. It is a design flaw by me but luckily not a big one.

5 forts were enough so I didn't bother with the last one. Battles take a little longer with 5 forts but on this map we were not in a rush. It was easier to move around 5 forts instead 6.

In front of the 4 markets there should be one villa. So you must have build the first market one tile closer in step 102. There is a 2x2 road square in that area. But thats not a big deal. You will still get 20.296 score if everything else is fine. Still it is over 20.000. So its fine. I would just submit it as it is. I'm happy that you had no major problem with the WT.

The next WT will have at least 25.000 score with a completely new design. We have finished the series for double looped villa blocks.

Well done, Lokki.

Thats a very good score.

I am still tired but no rush.

__________________


Grand Champion C3 2001 World Cup. Novice Champion C3 2001 World Cup.Winner 7 Gold Medals C3 2001 World Cup.

Thank you team. That was so awesome, I've already tripled the score of my first try on this map. Besides I'm getting to understand too what I'm doing what makes it easier to follow the WT. Not that I'm able to do any such strategies myself yet.

I went back to save 36, deleted a market, and got the 63rd medium villa soon enough, but since it had only 4 more Patricians (20+4) I won't do this one again. I already submitted the first one of this WT4. Would spare Goonsquad counting all this.

Cliff, take your time, there is no hurry. I had that feeling of being overly tired at the end of March and beginning of April. Took a while to get over it.

It appears a had a devolved villa from old villa block. So I 've got only 20288. I have to watch out for those details. Its good that we GS who checks entries throughly.

Oh you too, Phil.

Now that I think back I must say this WT4 probably isn't for every C3 newbie. It took me more time than you estimated. Don't get me wrong, it isn't difficult at all, just followed the detailed notes, but while doing that one must be highly focused all the time. There is just one little slip and it might go all wrong. (Oh I know just how wrong it can go ). I did WT4 in two parts, two evenings. Learned a lot.

You did very well Lokki. 20.000 in two days is a very good achievment. On the other hand I agree with you that it was difficult. I'm hoping that I will find ways that end with higher score and are easier to play. Nothing is impossible. I just need some time to sort out my own entry first.

Phil, take your time, and make an excellent score.

I might try something on my own in the meantime.

PS. If you think of another great WT I can follow your great notes. Actually it could be fun if the WT is difficult. I had such 'fun' moments with that engineer in the temple loop (WT2), until I finally 'tamed' him and he started behaving the way I wanted! What a good feeling that was!

These are more than just walkthroughs, they are detailed blueprints of each step to take to get a certain output. Impressive energy you put in helping your team, Philon. I wasn't aware such in depth explanations were allowed, especially the graphical part. I'm not sure we should be using the Glyphy utility next time. In a team event new, intermediate and even advanced players are supposed to learn all sorts of things about the game and use that knowledge in a creative way, rather than complete an incredible detailed walkthrough. At least that's how I see it.

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Yes, Philon worked hard for his team, not just creating detailed walkthroughs, but helped a lot everyone of us. That is perhaps one thing he had much less time for his own city. But he did have a great score nonetheless. He was a perfect captain, and I was honoured to be in the same team with these incredible players.
Besides these walkthroughs include lots of helpful hints and tips too. I learned a lot from them even if you might think otherwise.

You didn't read Goonsquad announcement? It is in the Lucius the Lecherous- C3 Team thread: http://www.citybuildingcontests.net/...69&postcount=8

Hello Cazy,

There were no limitations regarding the detailed usage of glyphy tool. GS clearly announced that the glyphy was allowed and he didn't mention any limitations. If you thought too much detail was not allowed then you could have easily check with GS if that assumtion was correct.

Regarding your suggestion for future contests, I think in future team contests even if a designer wants to apply limitations, it will be impossible because of practical reasons. At the end all these are text. Between one character text and 1.000 characters text there is nowhere you can draw a line and say after this, it is too much detail.

The glyphy was my idea. I asked GS if it is allowed and he decided to allow it because at the end all these are text. If GS said no then still I would use ordinary text to show layouts with text characters. In fact I did this a few times in this contest because one player had problems with the glyphy. In this message I have using ordinary text:

http://citybuildingcontests.net/vbul...9&postcount=29

In another contest some other players have used text to show layouts. Here is an example that actually inspired me:
http://citybuildingcontests.net/vbul...read.php?t=988

Forget about the glyphy, it is easy to ban that in future contests, but just look at these last two links. One is a simple text layout, another is very advanced. Where can you draw a line between these two and say, this is too much detail? The answer is nowhere.

You can not apply a character limit or square size limit because these would be overcome by multiple smaller instances.

You could completely disallow text layouts but then I can use coordinates. (*In fact if the glyphy wasn't available your excel file Cazy, would serve as good as the glyphy) If you disallow coordinates then I can use normal descriptions. At the end no matter how many different things you ban, all team captains are working in equal conditions. So who spends more energy will get more results. Just look at the amounth of text I posted during this contest. Just look how many topics I opened and in how many topics how I helped to team members. And then please compare this to other teams.

I think the only wise thing to do in future team contests would be building stronger teams against my team and giving me the weakest players.

This is not the first time I played the whole map just to help other players. I think Cazy is surprised that I did something like that.

Cazy, just so that you know, it is even more complicated to create these type score aimed walkthroughs than achiving that score yourself, because I played this walkthough four or five times to find easy ways to follow. Many times I went back a few years just to leave more money or more workforce so the map would have more tolerance to follow.

If a team member had wanted then I would even play the whole map according his/her special requirements and then explain the details after I finish. But this wasn't necessary in this contest because many followed their own ways without a problem.

Once in a Pharaoh team contest a teammate was stuck somewhere. I recreated smillar conditions on my map, foun a solution and told the other player. I enjoy pretty much playing alongside other players just like playing beforehand to help them.

Cazy, I understand your sentiment, but I have to disagree with where you are going with this. The team captain's job is to both manage his team AND to teach those with less knowledge and experience. As long as it is clearly stated up front which tools can and cannot be used, then the only competitive advantage or disadvantage comes from how that team's captain chooses to use those tools and how much he/she is willing to put into the project.

Philon put an incredible amount of energy and time into his walkthroughs, but nowhere did he demand that his team use them exactly the way he posted. If he had, then you could say that this was just a contest between Philon and everyone else. It was not. Every team member was free to go their own way in completing this scenario. I think that some of the team used at least his first couple of walkthroughs to get their initial scores posted, but then several members developed things differently on their own. I did not use any of these walkthroughs myself, but I certainly did read through them and look at many of the images. I learned quite a lot from some of them, but I also didn't understand the mechanics of some of them initially. I am sure that the players who used them didn't understand parts of the walkthroughs either until they actually built them and got to "kick the tires".

I did ask for help several times in developing forced walker "pods" for my layout, and Philon gave me very specific guidance and examples in response to my very specific questions. I think that was being a very effective captain. I had never used forced walkers prior to the audition, and I had never entered a competition that required them. It seemed awfully confusing to me. I now have a much greater understanding of forced walkers and feel somewhat comfortable in using them. I learned that from this contest, and I probably would not have learned it as well without example images to look at.

The glyphy tool was not the only extraordinary tool that I saw used in this contest. You put a lot of your own time and energy into developing the excel spreadsheet that was made available to us. This was the first time that I had ever used that tool for extensive city planning. Would you view this in the same light as the glyphy tool? If not, please explain.

I believe and I hope that your sentiment in your post was one of "gee I didn't know anbody expended that much effort for their team" than one of "you guys only won because your captain played the game for you". Unfortunately, the written word often does a very poor job of truly communicating one's sentiments. In an international community such as this it can be even more of a problem.

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Have a good day!

Vectorgod

This was pretty much my attitude during both team contests I have run. In the C4 contest I had to disallow a drawing done in paint, but allowed text-based diagrams like the one by ADJB linked above and some very good ones by Herotodus. My dividing line has been text as against graphics. If it is a case of posting text in the private forum it is OK. Also a link (which is text) provided the object linked hasn't been put there specifically for the event. Anything that done in anything other than text is not allowed, although I agreed to allow the Excel diagram of the starting position provided everyone had access to it.

Philon, I'd like to see you try your hand at the C4 team contest. Maybe we'll be on the same team again, or maybe we'll be able to compete under different conditions. C4 doesn't quite have the depth of C3 but its is a great game nonetheless.

I agree with Vectorgod as I was in the same boat as him. I had never used forced walkers before. Also I couldn't understand the gylphy thing for a long time and I never was able to work any of the walk thoughs. I did my own thing but certainly got a lot of help and support from Phil especially with details of how to use several forced walkers off the baths. I am still impressed that I managed 6 different loops and got as far as I did.

The main thing is that as goonsquad had allowed what we were doing and never told us that we were wrong is that we assumed the other teams were doing the same thing as all teams had been told they could. As we did not have any access to any of the other forums till the contest was over we had no idea that other teams were not using it to the same extent as we did.

The walkthoughs were an incredible work of art by Phil because in the end only 2 players even attempted them and only one used one as a final score. He could have been upset with the two of us that didn't/couldn't follow his plan but he never even got annoyed about it. Just helped us as and when we asked.

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Grand Champion C3 2001 World Cup. Novice Champion C3 2001 World Cup.Winner 7 Gold Medals C3 2001 World Cup.

Since the glyphs were explicitly allowed in this contest, I don't see the problem, and if I read his post correctly, neither sees Cazy. The question is whether they should be allowed next time. I think it would be more fun to try without such detailed information, so I didn't promote it in the Vipsania team, but there is a very large very grey area over there, and I guess Cazy's own Excel map is well within that zone. If that is what players like ...

I probably would perfer that it wasn't used if I was the designer in a team event. Of course that may have a lot to do with me not being able to understand it very well.

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Grand Champion C3 2001 World Cup. Novice Champion C3 2001 World Cup.Winner 7 Gold Medals C3 2001 World Cup.

I think the use of glyphy tool was good, at least from my point of view. Before the contest I had a limited knowledge of C3, and 'seeing' through this tool how things should be put together helped me a lot. And those of you who think that having such a walkthrough is a piece of cake for getting a nice score easily, well, try it yourself, by executing one. Not that easy if you are a C3 newbie. As I said already in one of the threads, it takes A LOT of energy and hard work to follow even such a masterly made WT. I did all 4, and each one was getting harder than the previous one, but that was part of the learning process. And while playing I got the hang of the game better and better.

Next I am going to play C3 peaceful career again. I was never able to finish it even when I tried several time. I'm sure there won't be any (at least not that much!) yo-yoing of housing this time. Earlier I was so frustrated that I put C3 aside and never installed it on my new PC until this team event was announced. The team event gave me such a boost of self confidence in warfare things too that I even played C4 military tutorial in an aggressive sort of ecstasy. (As you probably know CoTN is my fav game, and it handles military in a very different way. )

With minor alterations I can change all glyphy code to ordinary text. Banning the glyphy doesn't do the job if your aim is to prevent that a player describes a design, or even bigger designs to other players.

Ordinary text is just as useful. In fact with the glyphy we are limited to 40x40 size, with ordinary text we are not. If the glyphy was banned I would use 120x120 text layouts to show the entire map like in the last link in my previous message.

I will probably add some special characters like in that mentioned example and probably I will add even some colour. I think not being able to use the glyphy is no problem. I can find ways around it.

Actually I understand Cazy's surprise. Even though the glyphy was allowed by hand writing it you couldn't go too far. I did never hand write the glyphy codes. I used always my excel file. I think none of the other teams used that idea. Actually it was easy for them because they all had Cazy's excel file.

Cazy, when you designed your excel file I was already using mine. But still I was curious and had a look. Yours looked more professional than mine. One detail that was different was that you were using building names. For instance a bath was represented with a 2x2 area that had the word "bath" on it.

I was using the glyphy codes on my excel. (BTW you can download it here [entry 7 excel]) A bath was represented with a 2x2 area with "b." and ".." for second line. This is exactly how it is in the glyphy. If you disallow the glyphy what I'm going to do is to change this to "bb" and "bb" so a bath will be represented with 4 b's.

When you copy text from excel you first paste it to notepad and then get rid of empty space by repleacing the tab spaces with nothing.

GS,
I'm not sure about C4. I would rather spend the time to create some C3 material and some new palace city. In the past I tried different CB games but I didn't find the emotional connection that would carry me through all the stages to learn the game extensively.

I checked other teams again. It appears in Team Vulnavia GS was using excel in combination with glyphy. There are some long glyphy codes in the thread "New Walkthrough 100 Prosperity" that don't look like they were hand written.

In Team Antonia, Vipsania and Korenia I haven't seen any long glypies.

I think using excel for designing in C3 was the idea that improved my game the most. In the past I have used excel in all my palace cities, my population cities, even in some career cities like Lugdunum and Tarsus. Recently I have used it in "walking on the moon" contest.

Even if a shared excel file is disallowed in team contest I would use excel while I'm working on my own. On the other hand I think GS's desicion to allow a shared excel file was brilliant. It is the idea that improves the game the most. You can design on paper but this is not so practical because of changes. With excel you can apply chances much easier.

So hopefully, a few players have used excel for the first time to plan their cities and this is certainly one of the nice achievments in this contest. The same could be argued for the glyphy. Some players have used it for the first time. Using the glyphy, using excel, working in windowed mode, all these are nice technical aspects that add to the skills of a player.

My glyphy codes were all handwritten, mostly in the utility itself.

How do you use pen and paper on a computer?

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Mysterious are the ways of ...

GS and I were using the term handwritten to mean a text that was typed. Actually I have mislead GS. So the correct word would be "typed" and not handwritten.

GS's glyphy code was typed but mine wasn't. I didn't type any of the code above in this walkthrough. I copied the text from my excel file.

GS, your code looked complicated so I assumed you used the same technique. You must have spend long time to type all those codes. It is certainly impressive to see that you too worked very hard for your team.

So it looks like I was indeed correct by saying that no other team has used excel and the glyphy in combination.

With so many replies, I don't even know where to start...

I didn't question Philon's leading and teaching abilities at all, by the contrary, I said: "Impressive energy you put in helping your team, Philon".


I know these walkthroughs are great learning tools and team contests are supposed to help people improve their game, but sharing graphical information (be it actual graphics or just text) of completed cities and all the steps to build them seems to me a little bit beyond the unwritten rules of these events.


Ok, I will rephrase. I was aware that using the glyphy tool was allowed, but I was reluctant at using it exstensively. I even asked a question in the public forum of the contest about how far we can go with the glyphy. Although the answer was "there's no limit", I still felt a little uncomfortable when I shared a glyphy of a certain portion of my early city.


This is the reason I feel the glyphy tool should not not be allowed in future contests, because you can't draw a line between acceptable and over-use of it. On the other hand it's true that, as Philon is successfully proving, you can't stop a very motivated player from sharing exhaustive layout information.


As I said before, I totaly agree that we should all learn the most we can during the team events. My only observation was about describing the layout of the city in such detail that it leaves too little space for originality. Explaining specific aspects of the game is different. We too had players who haven't used forced walkers prior to this contest, but learned all there was to know about them.


The Excel map is something entirely different. It's just the diagram of the starting position, nothing more. It was simply a tool to help each player materialize their own creativity. My teammates used the spreadsheet coordinates to ease communication.


I assure you it was neither. With my message I didn't intend to question your well deserved win at all, I only wanted a discussion about a principle. Even if noone shares my point of view, a discussion about all this might be beneficial to clarify things for future contests.


Although I am aware this is impossible to implement, I have to observe that the ruling in the spirit of a team contest should not be about whether to use graphics or text, but rather about how to use them.


I know writting these walkthroughs requires experience, talent, patience and tenacity and I'm sure following them was a tremendous effort. My point is not about that, but about whether it is in the spirit of a team contest or not to allow this kind of communication.


I have already downloaded your Excel files, Philon. I saw they are different from mine (more effective, but less descriptive) and I understood from the first glance that you were using them to get your glyphy code. Very inovative.


I understand your point, Philon, but try to understand mine. How far can we go with exchanging information? From the previous team event I was part of, I was left with the impression that it's not in the spirit of a contest to share complete information about the city. I understand there's no way to stop that by only rules and that you all think it might not even be in the best interest of the novices to do so. As you prove yourself, Philon, there is no way to prevent players from sharing whatever information they want, if they want to. In this case I see no reason for disallowing anything, be it text, graphics or even saved files. I see no fundamental difference between 8 glyphies covering the whole city and a spreadsheet with that same completed city. Not allowing certain communication possibilities only makes it more difficult for the experts to help the newer players.

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This is interesting, almost all of team Pomponia looking at this thread, except CC. Probably he'll be soon here too.

Cazy,

Your reply is certainly well written. I pretty much enjoy these technical discussions. I wish all discussion at CBC were like that.

I think there is in fact a huge difference between allowing what we have allowed so far and adding more to that list. Exchanging sav files, excel files, pictures or videos is not a good idea in my opinion. With those tools you could stop the man on the street and even he would submit a perfectly high score without learning much about the game.

What we want is that team members learn from each other, work together on problems, share knowledge, experience and ideas and enjoy the event.

Because of practical reasons I would allow the glyphy. Then I would of course only hope that team captains would use tools in a such a way that don't require another player to follow some mechanical steps where the player doesn't know or doesn't learn anything from it. But of course this would be just an unwritten expectation.

In my WT's I tried to make them educational and fun. I think if a captain is writing in a too machanical style hopefully the complaints he receives will force him to change his style. There is a self correction machanism here. In this contest I was ready to help each player in his/her own game style. In fact all players had different styles. Sometimes it is a theoretical discussion that helps most. Sometimes a specific detail about a game feature helps. In this contest we had also lots of strategy discussions.

I did see this in the forum, and considered trying it, but ended up doing them by trial and error in the glyphy utility. They took perhaps an hour or so, maybe a little more, for all the ones I did. They were not as intricate as yours.

I ans amy team discover the gliphy with this contest. It wa was a litle complicated for me to utilize all his possibilities.
You had an adavantage.

I had idea to combinate gliphy code and excelmap but it was too complicated and I was not sure that such map can be utile for the other members of my team.
MS92 had is own ideas and I did not know it at all. I also learned to know Vesontio and Otto in this contest. It was their first and it was very difficult for them.
It was my first contest as leader.

I would have found simpler and more rapid to be able to send to Otto and Vesontio examples of provisions (forced walkers) even on another chart rather than to have to explain to them. I still thank Goonsquad, Juliaset and their team to have made their possible to help me.

Nicolus

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